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New Space Flight Sim Project - Newbie Builder Alert!

Discussion in 'DIY Motion Simulator Projects' started by Torqued, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. Torqued

    Torqued New Member

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    Hey folks, I am looking into building a motion SPACE flight simulator for a new game in development (Star Citizen - http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com). This game will support the Oculus Rift, so I plan to use that rather than LCD displays, which should simplify the design somewhat. The problem i am having is coming up with a general design type that will accurately simulate space flight. Key here is SPACE flight, not atomspheric flight, which is substantially different. One huge difference is pulling back on the stick in space does not create a feeling of acceleration like it does in an airplane. I am thinking the sim would work like a hybrid between a flight sim and a race sim. The key thing about the race sim would be the pitch/dive which simulates the accleration/deceleration. In space I dont see much deceleration, but certainly acceleration would be key. Where it would be substantially different from a flight sim is that pitching up would not be tied to accleration or the feeling of G-forces like it would in an airplane. Therefore holding back on the stick shouldnt keep my chair in a reclined position. The same also likely goes for roll. Because of zero gravity, you wouldnt feel tilted so your seat should return to zero after the intial acceleration has been felt. In space I would expect to feel a very brief accleration in the direction of the stick, but then nothing. perhaps the stick movements would cause a quick feeling of accleration (a jolt by the sim perhaps?) then return to zero. Thoughts on this would be much appreicated!

    I am interested in this community's thoughts on what SIM design might work best for a space sim, as opposed to standard flight sim or race sim. My first impressions on design were something like below, but im certainly not stuck on it, if a different design option would give better results for my application.

    Hey folks, I plan to build a motion SPACE flight simulator for a new game in development (Star Citizen - http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com). This game will support the Oculus Rift, so I plan to use that rather than LCD displays, which should simplify the design somewhat. The problem i am having is coming up with a general design type that will accurately simulate space flight. Key here is SPACE flight, not atomspheric flight, which is substantially different. One huge difference is pulling back on the stick in space does not create a feeling of acceleration like it does in an airplane. I am thinking the sim would work like a hybrid between a flight sim and a race sim. The key thing about the race sim would be the pitch/dive which simulates the accleration/deceleration. In space I dont see much deceleration, but certainly acceleration would be key. Where it would be substantially different from a flight sim is that pitching up would not be tied to accleration or the feeling of G-forces like it would in an airplane. The same also likely goes for roll/yaw. In space I would expect to feel a very brief accleration in the direction of the stick, but then nothing. perhaps the stick movements would cause a quick feeling of accleration (a jolt by the sim perhaps?) then return to zero.

    I am interested in this community's thoughts on what SIM design might work best for a space sim, as opposed to flight sim or race sim. My first impressions on design were something like below, but im certainly not stuck on it, if a different design option would give better results for my application.

  2. Nima

    Nima Member Gold Contributor

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    Hi
    I n the First you Must fly in Cockpit Camera .behind the plan you Never becom a Real Feeling.
    You Must use in the First the plan Position Pitch and Roll.and only a littel acculation Patch and Roll.
    Any flye Games have a brake and trottel for the Time were the plan or on the ground on start.
  3. danalog

    danalog Motion Sim Wannabee

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    I'm looking into a motion sim for space sims too. For space sims the only option seems to be 6-DOF types. The best version would be a Steward platform, also the most expensive. I'm in the process of rethinking that to create something from scavenged parts to reduce costs.

    Unfortunately I haven't found any 3D programs for Mac that are simple enough for a beginner to sketch my ideas in. If someone has any suggestions... I would love to share my ideas.
  4. Jas

    Jas New Member

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I too am imagining a motion chair/Oculus Rift/HOTAS flight control set up for Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous. Reading through the awesome material contributed here by the generous simulator.net community has inspired me to give it a go - despite being a motion chair newbie.

    I think adapting the 'physics' used in space sims (eg; artificial gravity, inertial dampening etc) will be a fun challenge. Torqued 's idea sounds correct to me, in that rolling right should result in a jerk in the platform before it returns to zero, at least while the speed of the roll remains unchanged.

    However, I wonder if keeping the platform in a bank while the ship is rolling might feel more 'natural', or make for better game play? I suspect once we stick a rift on our heads we'll each find what feels right.

    Being a motion-sim noob, can anyone confirm for me if say Simtools and how it interprets telemetry from Space Sims might limit our options here?

    In any case, I'm starting off with a 2DOF chair, using this project from bsft as inspiration. I figure this can give me roll and pitch, including say a quick pitch up or down to simulate acceleration or breaking. I reckon butt kickers would be an awesome addition too.

    A 6DOF chair sounds great, but is too steep a learning curve for me at the moment!
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Jas

    Jas New Member

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    Erm... I promise the original punctuation and spelling of my post was better than that!
  6. AceOfSpies

    AceOfSpies Living the Dream!

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    Hi @Jas, nice thought about space sim telemetry adaptation. We can only hope that suitable games turn up. Personally, I'm waiting for the release of the Rift so I can ditch the static screen and experience more immersive racing and flying. It isn't very immersive if you can still see your bedroom as your heading in on a bombing run! :grin

    Mike:oops:
  7. value1

    value1 Nerd SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    One of the reasons why my sim is in the dark garage :grin
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Hans

    Hans It has begun...

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    Have you experienced the simulation ride at Epcot? I think is called Mission:Space. It uses centrifugal force along with chair tilt. Simulates launch forces as well as weightlessness, in a very believable manner. The key is smoothness. You don't feel the spin.
  9. markharris101

    markharris101 New Member

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    more on this subject please..
  10. telfel

    telfel Active Member

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  11. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Alright for some , felt like sitting on a back massager ,lol, suppose I have been spoilt with a real sims, lol.
  12. markharris101

    markharris101 New Member

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    Are there any other space sim threads , Im new and havant had time to plough through them all yet ? but I was thinking smooth 3dof with rift would be good enough for a lower budget project .
    please forgive spelling ,punctuation, grammer and bad ideas , did very badly at school not to bright .
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  13. value1

    value1 Nerd SimAxe Beta Tester SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Goodness, do you *really* think anyone cares about your grammar or punctuation here?!
    Share your thoughts, creativity, experience here and everyone is happy :thumbs
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  14. Ruszek83

    Ruszek83 New Member

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    It seem to be very interesting thread.
    My Oculus Rift DK2 is to be delivered next week, so i will start motion seat project for Elite Dangerous and IL-2 BOS.
    For last couple of weeks i've been reading on this forums and the amount of infirmation is overwheming...
    ANYHUUU i will be starting with 2-3 motor solution seat in couple of weeks.
    I was wandering about noise levels of this builds... which motors are quietest ?
    Is it possible to make a pneumatic solution and if so is this much more expensive - which "motors" must be used for pnaumatic solution?
  15. Tino

    Tino Member

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    6dow steward platform for me is less complicated to build than many other solutions to get 'many dof'.
    This mercan-e design made me interested in building my platform, it's a long way will finished, but hopefully before Star Citizen :D
  16. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    Do you know if an sdk is avail for Elite Dangerous, I nearly bought it but will wait for proper release as its been promised a lot cheaper. Im involved in too many beta games at present , don't need another one , even though I played it too death on my C64 , would be great to relive that again with real graphics , the game looks impressive.
  17. Ruszek83

    Ruszek83 New Member

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    As far as i know there is no SDK for it, but this game is worth every penny. I would say that the game is "complete" on the consumer/gameplay level.
    They still need to add the "garage" option so you can have more then 1 ship at a time and some other small stuff, but other then that it is amazing... i am 30 so i do remember good old thing from C64.
    I have both Star Citizen and Elite D. and Elite is WAAAY better right now. I hope Star C. will catch up eventually, but now Elite is the winner.
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Tino

    Tino Member

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    I think Star Citizen dudes are focusing on creating something on a much larger scale than we've seen in games so far.
    At the moment, it takes a few minutes to load small (few km) level in space on SSD, 16 gb ram, 8 core xeon PC so, they have a long way to go to make it work smooth on a persistent universe scale.

    Another game which I'm over-hyped is no man's sky, it sounds incredible, using procedural stuff anywhere, mad, but if it works it will help a lo on the content creation side :)
  19. noorbeast

    noorbeast VR Tassie Devil Staff Member Moderator Race Director

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    I have both games and agree that in the areas I am interested in, Rift and solid controls, Elite Dangerous is ahead of Star Citizen, but it is still early days for both.

    There are no SDKs so data would have to be extracted from both games to create SimTools plugins and they are both still developmental moving targets. That said there is interest concerning motion simulation in both game forums and both games are reinventing the whole space sim genre.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2014
  20. eaorobbie

    eaorobbie Well-Known Member SimTools Developer Gold Contributor

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    My Motion Simulator:
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    Cool need someone here to push a little on their forums, so we can get the data to build a proper plugin. Will not only help us , but other sim software manufactures too. Could open up mass sales for them , it is in their best interest.
    • Like Like x 1